Speaking of car safety

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
09/26/2014 at 13:22 • Filed to: None

What is oppo's opinion on these?

I just ordered a pair to try out and see if I like them or not (or if they'll even fit on my car). My car rides higher than every LeSabre I've ever seen, and with the new wheels the gap looks really goofy and I figured this is reversible whereas cutting coils is not.

I know people will be quick to yell "THEY'LL BREAK AND YOU'LL EXPLODE IN A FIREY BALL OF DOOM!" but I have three counterpoints to that:

1. For all the people that say that, never in my searches about these have I actually heard of that happening, where I have heard from people using these for well over a year as of writing with no problems whatsoever

2. If it did snap, the front of the car pops up maybe an inch suddenly. Oh, no. I really think any reasonably competent driver could keep it in his lane if that happened.

3. Worst case scenario: It snaps and takes a tire with it. I can see how that would be a *pretty big issue* but, again, I've never heard of these failing and if I like it I might weld a large metal band around the coil in place of these clamps.

Also, pre-emptive: I'm not getting lowering springs. I have no money for them, and there are none for the struts that go on my car. It's either this or cutting the coils, but I'm probably going to do this either way to judge if I like it enough to cut my coils.

DISCUSSION (67)

dinobot666 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:25

Is your car also a Lesabre? Some context would be helpful here, like what your overall intentions are. Cosmetic, handling etc.

Steve in Manhattan > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:28

Is there a photo with the new wheels somewhere?

Decay buys too many beaters > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:28

Grow a pair and cut your springs :)

But seriously, the only issue I see here is reducing total spring travel without proportionally increasing spring rate (so it's like cutting springs with an undo button). Worst case one breaks mid corner and you lose control (assuming the instantaneous alignment change is large enough)

jariten1781 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:30

I've never seen those before...I'd grab some junkyard coils and cut them before I'd trust my suspension to some cheap Chinese clamps.

Probably not a 'I'm gonna die' risk, but the consequence is too high for me for what amounts to a cosmetic mod.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:30

Do not use those!

Jesus Christ is that a fucking terrible idea.

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:32

I'm above all that.

Kinja'd!!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:32

Abjectly terrifying. Not in their odds of failure themselves, but in the emfuckening of the linear k-response of your spring and creation of stress points thereon. If you create a fatigue point in the middle of the spring, you'd better believe a resulting crack and catastrophic collapse is possible. Not necessarily likely, but significantly *more* likely than a non-tampered spring, and more likely than a shortened one.

Some of these have stress-relief corners, many do not.

drdude > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:33

A harbor freight grinder and cutoff wheel may be twice the price.. but at $14 its hardly expensive.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Decay buys too many beaters
09/26/2014 at 13:33

Better idea. Get springs from a "sport model" of a car on the same platform.

Axel-Ripper > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:33

Why not just get some lowering springs?

These seem like a horrible idea. For lowering, there are worse ideas out there (Blow torching your springs) but for jacking a vehicle up.... YEESH. Bolts aren't meant to be in compression.

crowmolly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:35

Looks to me like a lot of stress on only two parts of the coils. And your handling will suffer.

Worst case scenario is wrong. Worst case is it lets go when you are going around a cloverleaf after getting off the highway and it lets go, messing with your suspension dynamics and you end up wrecked.

In some states these are also illegal.

Decay buys too many beaters > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 13:36

but think of the weight savings from cutting the springs!

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:38

It isn't quite reversible, holding two coils compressed together will make it fatigue much quicker and likely dramatically shorten the life of the spring.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > My citroen won't start
09/26/2014 at 13:39

Those magic spheres. I wonder how many people on Earth actually know exactly how all that works.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Decay buys too many beaters
09/26/2014 at 13:42

Grams!

Crocket Bernet > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
09/26/2014 at 13:43

3 and they're all highly guarded by ninjas on the highest peak of the Mont Blanc massif in France. You'll never make it to them and if you somehow did you'd never get by all the ninjas to get their secrets.

Decay buys too many beaters > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 13:45

But if it means you can take that last bite of the cheeseburger before an autocross without feeling guilty it's well worth it :)

That's why I removed all of the redundant subframe bolts from my FR-S...

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
09/26/2014 at 13:45

Well, yeah, but it's *more* reversible than cutting springs.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > crowmolly
09/26/2014 at 13:46

Suffer? I've heard nothing but good things from the people that used these as far as handling goes.

That is a terrifyingly good point.

Yup, Carolina and Washington, if I remember correctly.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Axel-Ripper
09/26/2014 at 13:46

Don't exist for my struts.

Yeah, I'm just lowering. I might just use these to guage if I want to cut springs or not.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > drdude
09/26/2014 at 13:47

But not reversible without buying new springs, sadly. I might just use these for a little while and if I like it I'll go ahead and chop the springs.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
09/26/2014 at 13:48

That is an interesting point. I didn't consider the odds of the spring itself breaking, just the clamp.

tromoly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:48

Do not cut coils, that's on par with cutting your struts to lower your car.

I have bad feelings about these, effectively you'll be constantly loading one part of the spring, and immediately on the edges you'll be loading the spring even more than standard due to the squished coil, leading to increased fatigue and broken coils. Also don't forget what will happen when the rest of the coil compresses such that they touch the clamps, that's even more concentrated stress.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:48

True. I'm still not really sure it's the way to go. It's not as dangerous as some methods but one of these breaking during cornering would be pretty scary. If you are set on using them, consider replacing those weedy looking bolts in that picture with some stronger ones with nylon lock nuts.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > My citroen won't start
09/26/2014 at 13:48

What the good god am I looking at?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 13:49

Compelling argument.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Crocket Bernet
09/26/2014 at 13:49

I will try and joust the ninjas with a sharpened stale baguette. I must at least try and know their magic.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 13:49

No such thing. I've been googling for the past two weeks to find a "sporty" car with compatible struts and none exists.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Decay buys too many beaters
09/26/2014 at 13:50

Just remember to cut front and rear together. As you remove coils, the spring rate goes up, and the stiffer end looses traction first.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:50

I work with springs, trust me, DO NOT USE THOSE.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Steve in Manhattan
09/26/2014 at 13:50

Here ya go:

Kinja'd!!!

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > dinobot666
09/26/2014 at 13:51

Yes, it's a 2000 LeSabre.

Right now I'm kind of leaning towards doing this more for cosmetic reasons than handling, though others that have done it have observed stiffer suspension after using these.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:53

Pontiac Bonneville GXP

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:53

Nitrogen wonder.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 13:55

What particular part are you worried about? Them wearing through the springs? The device itself failing? The change in suspension dynamics caused from deleting a large part of the spring travel? Some elaboration would be a bit more effective than "don't do that thing"

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
09/26/2014 at 13:55

Yeah the ones I got are a fair bit more robust looking. I'll probably also put something inside the clamp part to spread the force over the spring.

Steve in Manhattan > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 13:59

Wow - they look even better than I thought they would. Tell your dad that's plenty manly.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 13:59

Still not easy to get parts for, not to mention expensive.

Tohru > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 14:01

... "sport model"? OF A LESABRE?

Kinja'd!!!

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:02

Make sure to use loctite too.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:03

All of the above. 1. Uneven distribution of forces on the spring. 2. Compressing a spring to near or at coil to coil contact will cause irreversible changes to the spring. 3. The device failing while cornering. 4. The spring cracking in half. 5. Unknown handling dynamics. 6. Your springs have already aged, sagged and work hardened.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Tohru
09/26/2014 at 14:05

Platform mate, dipshit.

drdude > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:06

While I dont know where you are, if there is a pull-your-own-part yard near you, you could get a set of springs for your car for almost nothing.

miadaman? yes please > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:06

Fatigue, unbalanced compression and other mechanical wear issues aside, how do you make sure these clamps won't travel on the coil itself from vibration? The surface of these spring twists, expands and contract as they travel, you can't just glue it on and hope it stays. What if (and it will happen) if you clamp them on and they end up on the same side? It'll generate lateral forces on linkages/bushes that weren't designed for them.

If you want to try it out for looks in a garage, sure thing. But please don't actually use it on the road. Just my 2c.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:07

These look like a terrible idea.

How much would it be to go to a junk yard and get some springs off a junked LeSabre? Have a set of cut springs and - if you don't like it - a set of normal ones to put on the car.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
09/26/2014 at 14:09

I'll have to ask my friend how much he'd want for me to buy the struts off of a LeSabre Celebration Edition parts car he has.

MouseFitzgerald > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:13

I see cracked springs in your future...

Mattbob > Will with a W8 races an E30
09/26/2014 at 14:16

no. Spring rate doesn't go up when you cut springs.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Mattbob
09/26/2014 at 14:19

It sure does.

http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_ca…

Cowboy behind the wheel > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:19

Either do it right or don't do it at all. New springs or an all new suspension setup is the right way to go. Why waste your time and money trying to make your car something its not. Cutting coils is equally bad. Leave it as-is and save up for something better.

Mattbob > Will with a W8 races an E30
09/26/2014 at 14:25

ahh, I wasn't thinking about the displacement being distributed through the number of coils. I was just thinking about the rigidity of the material and everything else remaining the same.

nermal > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 14:26

Gram's the one that drives the Buick....

nermal > My citroen won't start
09/26/2014 at 14:27

What did the upper Triangle say to the lower Triangle?

You're Inferieur.

(sorry had to)

nermal > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
09/26/2014 at 14:29

I appreciate the use of "emfuckening" as a proper engineering term.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Mattbob
09/26/2014 at 14:30

Yeah, its a bit of a mindfuck the first couple of times you think about it. If you treat each coil as a little bitty spring, all connected in series to make one big spring, it makes a lot more sense.

dinobot666 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:30

You'll appreciate the wheel gap when winter rolls around — if you happen to live in the snow belt.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 14:31

Whoa, getting a bit aggressive aren't we?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:32

God damn, that looks good!

YSI-what can brown do for you > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:35

I would refrain from doing that, as if the point hasn't been hammered home. I doubt your cars has performance springs, and if I remember correctly it doesn't have a rear sway bar right? Hmmmmm, modifying this is going to be difficult.

crowmolly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 14:41

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.ph…

http://forums.nicoclub.com/do-coil-spring…

http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/2…

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php…

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthre…

http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/wheels-t…

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt…

http://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge…

I dunno man, I haven't really found much positive feedback on these things.

It's a cosmetic mod and will wear your stuff out faster.

crowmolly > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
09/26/2014 at 14:46

We need to stage an Oppovention.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > crowmolly
09/26/2014 at 14:47

Aaaaand my computer ran out of RAM from me opening all of those in a new tab all at once.

Oops.

Very informative, though. Thanks for the response.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/26/2014 at 14:49

Yup. No sway bar whatsoever in the rear, somewhat piddly one in front, and "comfort" springs all around.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/26/2014 at 15:12

Not at all.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 15:20

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/morein…

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 16:37

Avoid, based on the safety issues. Not so much because they could fail and you lose control, but they fail and suddenly there's a very nasty projectile going somewhere at high speed.

FriskyDingo > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
09/26/2014 at 17:49

I think you should of bought $5 of squarestock and some grade 8 bolts and made your own